AEJMC Trailblazers of Diversity – Clint Wilson

Early Experiences in Journalism:
0:00 – 1:30 Introductions and preamble
1:46 Clint’s introduction into journalism came from his father who was an editorial political cartoonist.

1:57 His father worked for the black press. For the Los Angeles Sentinel and the California Eagle.

2:09 Clint was an only child and his father worked at home.

2:18 He brought newspapers home and would read to Clint. His father’s interest in newspapers passed onto him.

2:33 He started writing very early. In elementary school he would write stories and share them with classmates.

2:48 He had a pretty good idea that writing is something he might want to do

2:55 Throughout high school and college he started to work on the school papers.

3:07 As a senior at Cal State Los Angeles – what he refers to as the “big awakening” – Clint was offered several positions after college. He said the college had a good track record at finding students jobs post graduation.

4:07 When the department chair talked to him about these opportunities, the first thing he said was “You know, I’ve looked around and nobody wants a colored reporter”

4:11 This set Clint off on a new path.

4:20 He knew he could write well. He had already been doing this professionally for several years.

4:46 This made him wonder, “why would somebody who has the talent not be able to get a job? Why would classmates – who were less accomplished – and not black or Hispanic getting jobs?

5:06 This set a research agenda for Clint.

5:16 The ironic part, Clint says, is that once he started in higher education, suddenly he started getting offers from newspapers. Even broadcast stations.

5:45 But by then he had his career set in education.

5:55 However, Clint would work at some of these places, like AP, during summer session, or he would take a sabbatical

6:10 His career had been established because he had been denied.

Background questions

6:18 Clint went to high school in LA at Fremont high school.

6:24 He graduated in 1961

6:31 At Fremont at that time, Clint’s graduating class had 640-something students, 70 percent African American, 25 percent Latino and the rest white.

7:02 Clint says, Fremont had a decade earlier, been an all-White school. But “the flight took place” and minorities, Clint says, became the primary population at that school.

7:25 While there Clint says he had a number of Latino friends and they all saw themselves in the same boat.

7:58 He had an “inborn affinity for an understanding of that [Latino] culture”

8:20 It was an excellent preparation for when Clint would meet Felix Gutierrez.

8:50 Clint says his parents rarely talked about the status of African Americans in the United States because “a lot of it was obvious.”

9:00 Clint read the black press – he knew the issues and what was going on.

9:10 His father encouraged him to get involved at an early age.

9:14 His father told him to make sure he voted and even took him to the polls

9:24 That, Clint says, was his introduction into the political side of things.

9:33 His father, as a cartoonist in the black press was tackling those issues

9:37 Prior to the Watt’s riots, the relationship between the African American community and the Los Angeles police department was tense.

10:08 Even now, Clint says, events like the Trayvon Martin case is reminiscent of the times he grew up in (“It’s not a lot different”)

10:19 Clint says it’s interesting that someone like him who came from a middle-class background, had never been in trouble, but was still “hassled by the police.”

10:41 One time in high school, Clint remembers, he started working at the Herald Examiner in LA. He was working late one night and on his way home he was pulled over and asked to get out of the car.

11:27 In college, Clint was pulled over and the officer told him racial epithets.

11:47 These weren’t isolated events. Clint says a lot don’t understand that this happens.

12:03 When the Watt’s riots occurred, Clint didn’t participate but he understood the frustrations.

12:14 You’re aware of the oppression, Clint says, just because you live in that community.

12:35 At the time, Clint’s mother was a union seamstress. She worked downtown in the garment district.

12:48 His father worked at a bank in the evenings, because he couldn’t make enough income solely as a cartoonist.

Awareness of Diversity

13:19 Clint says his family was active in NCAAP, active in church, and grew up in the club scouts. These organizations he said were to hopefully socialize one into a “midstream.”

13:54 At no time, Clint says, did it occur to him that high school was the end of his education.

14:09 It struck him that a large number of students at Fremont high school did not go to college.

14:23 Clint knew that his classmates were capable of going to college.

14:38 At that time there was tracking. Clint was placed in the college prep group.

14:47 Out of that group all of Clint’s classmates went to college.

14:55 The key moment, Clint recalls, was in middle school. Before moving to Fremont, Clint met with a counselor at his middle school to discuss the curriculum he would take.

15:30 -16:30 Pause in story due to background noise

16:29 The counselor tells Clint if he’d prefer woodshop, electric shop, the automotive program

17:12 Clint says he didn’t mind working with wood and he’d do that.

17:22 But when his parents found out they went to the school and asked why they were placing him in these vocational areas. With his test scores and other indications, Clint’s parents said he’d be able to do well in the college prep.

17:45 The counselor’s changed Clint’s curriculum.

17:51 As a kid, Clint thought woodshop would be an easier way out.

18:06 That was the nature of the schools at that time, Clint recalled.

18:12 Even if you had the intellectual capacity to do something beyond vocational tracks, you would be steered in that direction.

18:34 He never really thought about this moment until he was older and reflected on this time and how things were.

18:44 Growing up, Clint’s family didn’t have a lot of money. But there were options he said, like community college for little and work your way up. So Clint went to community college at LA City College

19:03 After LA City College he transferred to Cal State LA.

19:09 At LA City College he became a journalism major and worked his way up.

19:20 His last year there, elections for editor were held. He and another student – a white candidate – were the two running for the position.

19:52 His classmates told him that he’ll be the next editor.

20:04 On election day, Clint said that the next editor would be revealed by 1 o’clock during a staff meeting.

20:31 The meeting ended up starting late. The Chair of the department said it was a close election and that Clint’s opponent would be the next editor.

21:04 But Clint had reservations. He felt the chair’s wording was weird and that it was strange that the staff meeting was delayed.

21:10 The other students, according to Clint, were baffled, wondering how this happened.

21:18 In Clint’s mind, this was “racism at its best.” He was the only black student in his class and this was his first experience in a predominantly white environment.

21:38 The students were saying one thing, but the outcome was different.

21:53 The Chair said that since the election was so close that they would make Clint the managing editor. Normally, the editor-in-chief picks the staffs.

22:06 Years later, as Clint is working on his doctorate, he’s teaching at Cal State LA. One of his colleagues on the faculty had formerly been on the faculty at LA City College.

22:40 During lunch with Clint, his colleague revealed that he’ll “never forget how they kept him from being editor.”

23:00 The colleague goes on to tell Clint that the department had a faculty meeting and that the chairwoman told the faculty that Clint had won in a landslide. However, she was determined that there wouldn’t be an African-American editor as long as she chaired that department.

23:29 Clint never knew that, although he had his suspicions.

23:48 It’s an interesting area of study, Clint says.

24:00 He clears this up, adding: “Communication is so important. It can marginalize communities. If you don’t have a voice and you can’t acquire it in a mainstream environment, then you’re subject to whatever news they’re going to report about your community.”

24:38 The highest level of educational attainment for both of his parents was high school.

24:56 Clint didn’t concentrate on stories about African Americans.

25:05 This is because, Clint says, to be a well-rounded reporter you need to cover a lot of different topics.

25:13 So he started in sports.

25:24 There are events in sports, Clint says, that help you sharpen your journalistic skills.

25:39 Early on, Clint covered campus affairs, educational issues, etc.

25:58 A memorable story: Clint went to report on a lecture by a scientist from the jet propulsion lab. The scientist was discussing the lunar landing module.

26:15 On the blackboard were symbols, Clint knew he “was in trouble.”

(clip break)

­Other Experiences

26:41 At a conference in Houston, Texas during the late 70s, Clint received a note from the head of operation Breadbasket in Houston.

27:20 He wanted to talk to Clint because he had seen some of his research.

27:55 This man needed someone to come up with a program and asked Clint to join their board of directors.

28:16 This takes place over the period of a years

28:22   Clint was introduced and told them what initiatives and research.

29:14 All of tis happened in the 1980s during the Regan administration.

29:32 Before that time, Clint wasn’t a member of the Black Media Coalition

29:54 Black Media Coalition was a national group but it was based in Houston

30:16 The NABJ starts around 1975.

30:25 NABJ was inevitable, Clint says. Following a report, the mainstream media started hiring African-Americans into the newsroom. In doing so, they raided the black press

31:01 They were lured away with higher salaries and the opportunity to speak with a larger audience.

31:29 Clint describes this as a double-edged sword: this integration of African-Americans into white media was a major blow to the black press

32:31 The development of NABJ developed because of this integration. Black journalists were limited in the stories they’d cover, or they weren’t being promoted like their white colleagues were.

33:28 Although there was a larger number of African-American reporters, Clint said that insensitivity to these issues still continued.

33:29 This created friction amongst colleagues

34:06 NABJ became an institution in which those individual journalists could address those concerns in a collective kind of way.

34:36 At the same time the Kerner Commision asked higher education folks to put some people of color “in the pipeline.”

35:16 Everybody believed that integration was a good idea (in these higher education organizations) but no one was doing anything, Clint said.

35:26 At the local level, Clint was a founder of the BJA of Southern California, an NABJ chapter.

35:45 He was teaching at Cal State during this time. He began meeting with his black friends from area media like the LA Times and discussing these issues.

36:14 Three of them decided to start the organization.

36:20 (break)

36:36 The founders of the organization were Valerie (Clint can’t remember last name), she was a writer for the style section at the La Times; Bill Luis, a black cameraman at NBC – the 3 of them started talking and things developed from there.

37:18 They were able to get the organization started successfully and then applied to be apart of the national group. It still exists today.

Diversity and the newsroom

38:05 Clint remembers certain stories that advanced the cause of diversity in a negative way.

38:39 At the LA Times there was a black woman, and her colleagues made sexual comments about her.

39:02 Clint’s colleagues knew he wouldn’t partake in these jokes and stopped talking to him about it.

39:11 Another example, Clint says, happened at the times, too.

39:27 A story came across Clint’s desk. His story was about a shooting in South-Central LA. It was full of language implying this was gang related. But the facts, to Clint, didn’t seem to suggest this wasn’t the case.

40:18 There was one source, a cop, who believed this was gang-related violence.

40:32 Clint removed that graph from the article. The next day the reporter was livid.

41:16 Another instance, Clint recalls, occurred during a summer he worked at AP.

41:31 This occurred during the 1980s while Clint was at USC teaching.

41:38 A news advisory came across the wire saying that the LA county health department is going to have a news conference to discuss the deaths of 5 hispanics in East LA.

42:06 It didn’t suggest violence, Clint says. He then passed it on to the Editor’s desk saying this needed to be covered.

42:28 They didn’t do anything, however.

42:42 Later that day, they saw on TV, that the lead story was about these deaths, which were caused by tainted cheese found in this community.

43:24 They came to Wilson, who was on the desk at the time, and asked why this wasn’t covered.

43:33 They later recognized that they blew that story

43:49 They key thing here, Clint says, is that this happened in East LA. Any time 5 people die – for whatever reason – it needs to be covered. That’s news 101.

44:14 Days later they apologized to Clint, saying that they dropped the ball.

44:24 This mentality amazes Clint.

44:43 That experience, specifically, was very instructive because it showed Clint how things worked and why certain things are covered and certain things are not.

45:00 He hopes things are better now, but he says he doesn’t believe the Trayvon Martin story is an isolated event.

45:16 Clint mentions a movie, Fruitdale Station. It’s about a young man that’s kill by the police in that area. These events aren’t infrequent, Clint says.

45:30 Clint says that the notion that people in 2013 think this is an isolated event is mindboggling

45:57 His family didn’t talk about civil rights per se, but Clint was always told that when a cop approaches you don’t give them any hassle.

46:30 “You grow up that way – if you want to survive”

46:53 Clint says that younger colleagues were more observant of his role and status at the newspaper. Older ones, were resentful of Clint’s position.

47:23 There was a diversity role that needed to be filled, Clint says. Whether or not his boss at paper was sincere in his decision remains to be seen.

48:05 The reception generally among his colleagues wasn’t too warm, Clint says.

48:29 The Times wrote a series of stories about black criminal gangs leaving Watts to commit crimes.

49:38 The first headline read: “Marauders from South L.A. Invade”

49:47 Clint was shocked.

49:52 He says the Times spent a lot of money setting up a dummy storefront across the street from the neighborhood these reported gang members lived in.

50:08 Reporters hid inside. The idea was to notice people leaving, presumably getting on this freeway (which was referred to in print as “Nairobi highway”) to commit crimes elsewhere.

50:38 Clint wrote a letter to the editor about this, while he was still working the desk.

50:51 Clint says he was ostracized.

50:55 If something came across his desk, his colleagues would say “Clint wouldn’t want to deal with this ‘cause he thinks we’re all a bunch of racists.” These are the types of comments he received.

51:39 These kinds of stories, Clint hopes, are isolated now.

51:48 This whole thing has been a gradual process.

51:52 Clint is worried that as we get to the point where newspapers are declining in revenue and circulation, there will be fewer and fewer voices for underrepresented communities.

52:14 (quick pause due to noise)

52:29 Clint says there are fewer and fewer people of color that are representing those communities. There’s even a dearth of whites who are sensitive to these issues.

53:04 As these communities are becoming a larger part of the demographics of the United States, at the same time we see the media becoming less representative of those voices.

53:26 The interest in doing this kind of thing has peaked and we’re going down again. We’re loosing people right and left in the industry, Clint says.

Diversity and Academia

53:40 Clint got his Ph.D from USC.

54:24 For many years, Clint ran the summer programs for minority students. He started at Cal State LA.

54:45 For about 10 years he did this program. And were mainly funded by the Wall Street Journal.

54:53 They – Clint and Feliex – started with the multicultural group and as the program got larger they continued to get grants for their efforts.

55:30 The idea was to give these kids a start early.

55:33 The other issue was the de-emphasis of journalism in high school.

55:40 They were trying to fill that void at that level.

55:54 When you talk to educators, they say the main problem is there were pressures put on the curriculum to do other things.

56:09 Also, these programs were expensive. The equipment, how to print a paper – the costs added up.

56:25 At Fremont High School, Clint says they had their own print shop.

56:33 Their journalism program wrote the articles and the print shop printed the articles and the paper came out, Clint said.

56:44 The students, at the beginning of every school year had the option of subscribing to the paper – it was a means of making revenue.

57:08 The benefit for the print shop is they were teaching this craft so it all made sense, Clint said.

57:10 But not many high schools have print shops on campus so they had to find other means of printing.

57:29 That was only true in certain areas, Clint adds. “If you were in a more affluent area, you did have access to those things.”

57:55 Although there is the internet, Clint says students still need to be taught journalistic ethics, reportorial skills, what’s worth reporting and what’s not, etc.

58:05 (Break in recording)

58:19 Clint’s book is now in its 4th edition.

58:28 He’s not sure how many books have been sold, but it’s done very well.

58:43 Last he’s heard, more than 100 colleges and universities use it.

59:07 Clint says it’s rewarding because it laid the groundwork for that field of endeavors.

59:17 That helps people to publish in this area and build their portfolios.

59:32 It’s the combination, Clint says, of having a diversity standard and accreditation.

1:00:08 The first piece Clint wrote academically came out in Journalism Educator.

1:00:14 He was at Cal State LA. Clint’s research was on black journalism students. The research, Clint says reflected his experience: You have these people graduating but they’re not being hired.

1:00:53 In Clint’s research he found that students that are active on the campus newspaper had the best opportunities of getting jobs upon graduation

1:01:10 Those with internships also fared a better chance

1:01:16 But a look at the student body revealed that there were very few minorities

1:01:32 The faculty, Clint says, has a large part in that. They’re not pushing for recruitment, retention, or finding students employment post graduation.

1:01:49 Part of that, Clint believes, has to do with the fact that they’re white. “You look out for your own”, he says.

1:02:00 It occurred to Clint that they needed to get more people of color and women on these faculties.

1:02:10 There have been inroads, but it’s a work in progress.

1:02:20 That was around the time that Clint started going to AEJMC

1:02:35 Here, he met people, who were seeing the same issues in journalism he was.

1:02:48 Clint previously served on the centennial commission.

1:03:13 Armistead Pride was the chair at Lincoln University in Missouri, the prominent journalism university for African Americans

1:03:36 Pride was the first African-American faculty member in AEJ.

1:03:39 Clint read Pride’s book on the history of AEJ and wanted to include it in the centennial book (which never came out).

1:04:06 AEJ has had women almost from the beginning, but not many.

1:04:19 Multiculturalism needed to be a huge component of that book, Clint says.

1:04:38 Clint pushed for its inclusion. Others thought it was weak.

1:05:05 Clint believes there could’ve been a more concerted effort to track this information and the development of faculty of color down.

1:05:33 In 1978, there was a study of the faculty and the researcher found that as late of 1978 there 98 percent of the faculty were white males.

1:06:04 That was an astonishing realization, Clint says. The Kerner report had been out for 10 years by that point.

1:06:15 This is something that Lionel Barrel was addressing from the beginning.

1:06:23 Clint isn’t sure whether he was the second-ever black person at AEJ, but he was one of the firsts.

1:06:45 As we begin to discuss these issues of race in America, we look at the industry and point the finger, Clint says

1:07:00 Clint brings up an anecdote. He was reading an article in the Washington Post. The lead, he says, was essentially that as President Obama walks into a room to discuss race in America, all the reporters covering it are white.

1:07:28 When he comes into the room to discuss immigration, all the reporters are white, Clint says. There are no Hispanics in the room to ask questions or illuminate this issue.

1:07:52 Clint brings up this anecdote, because it’s still a problem still in the industry, but

1:07:57 Clint wonders what kind of innovative ways, if any, are being applied to bring in young, diverse people into the academy.

1:08:39 Clint uses another anecdote to illustrate a point.

1:08:48 His student, a doctoral graduate, recently got his degree. He’s an assistant professor

1:09:37 Clint was also weary of the fact that you have to do these things in the academy if you’re to succeed. Is this issue being taken seriously enough?

1:09:50 If they really want to get a diverse faculty, Clint says, extra effort will have to be made.

1:10:00 He suggests lightening the teaching load, or extra mentoring to make sure that these professors don’t get lost in the system.

1:10:22 It’s really no different than the industry’s situation, Clint says.

1:10:29 “It’s not enough to just give lip service to it”, Clint says. You can’t just hire a person and then put extra expectations on them that nobody in the organization has to address.

1:10:55 This takes extraordinary effort on the part of those in power, Clint says.

1:11:04 It won’t happen on its own, Clint says. “What incentive is there for somebody to go through all this when there’s no real commitment.”

1:11:40 These are bright people with options, Clint says.

1:12:14 These faculty members are “precious jewel”, Clint says. “You need to nurture this and help this person along.”

1:12:30 Clint’s graduate students often ask him if there will be a job for them

1:12:49 There are pressures on these students/faculty members, and Clint believes the academy needs to realize that.

1:13:05 While in graduate school, Clint didn’t have to get many loans. He could afford the tuition at Cal state and then used the GI bill to get his Master’s and doctorate at USC.

1:13:42 He was the only black student in the program. At both the Master’s level and doctorate level.

1:14:36 At Cal State LA his curriculum didn’t really center on diversity.

1:14:41 He taught news writing and reporting, history of media,

1:15:16 One of the things that attracted Clint to teach history was the fact that every history course he took never covered colored people.

1:15:41 The message, Clint says, is that these people are not important.

1:16:02 Additionally, he’s taught mass communication,

1:16:20 You have a certain student body, Clint says, and he felt it was important that they know something about their history in the industry.

1:16:33 At USC, he started his own course. The textbook, minorities in the media, became the basis for the course at USC.

1:16:47 This move was approved by the faculty. It became an elective course.

1:16:57 He also taught introductory mass communication course.

1:17:13 In this class Clint would introduce a unit on people of color in the media.

1:17:25 It was generally well received, he said. But there was always a handful of students questioning its merit.

1:17:41 At Howard, there was more of a background for teaching about people of color in communications.

1:17:57 There was already a course there called “History of the Black and White press.”

1:18:09 When Clint took that course over, he refined it to include the history of multicultural media. He wanted to be as inclusive as possible.

1:18:38 The cultural mix, at Howard, is greater than people think

1:19:03 Every couple of years, Clint teaches, an undergraduate course, but his focus has mainly been on graduate courses.

1:19:30 He has a course on the Black Press, specifically. The other courses he teaches are on pop culture and mass media

1:19:53 He also teaches a sports and media culture course

1:21:11 Clint is often interviewed by established news media, primarily around Black History Month.

1:21:25 Clint served several years on the board of the NAPA, the black press. He was the board of directors on their foundation.

1:21:47 A number of publishers will go to Clint, inquiring about the history of their paper, or if he’ll write a history of their paper.

1:22:10 He’s done a couple of NPR interviews

1:22:17 People in the community don’t really seek out Clint.

1:22:23 At USC he did more community engagement.

1:22:36 He had a couple of seminars for the community on how to deal with the media. For example, a church group would ask how they get positive messages about the community out.

The Media and the community

1:23:20 There is a distrust, Clint says, of general-audience media in the community.

1:23:33 The summer Clint worked at AP, one of the anniversaries of the Watt’s riot came up. “Wilson, that would be a good assignment for you.”

1:23:50 In doing that story, he found there was a lot of distrust, because he was representing AP.

1:24:05 It takes a while to talk to people and show them your sincerity, Clint says.

1:24:25 “I may work for the enemy, but I’m representing you”

1:23:53 Clint thinks it’s all about the readership because anything he does “is filtered through my cultural experience.”

1:25:19 There’s no question that either an editor or as a reporter, Clint decides the content that’s in there.

1:25:35 If something seems too stereotypical, Clint avoids it. He want readers to see causal things, how did things get to be this way?

1:26:09 It’s the responsibility of all reporters to be accurate

1:26:19 Years ago, Clint wrote about his belief that in many instances many well-meaning white reporters are unaware. “When they go into our communities it’s like going into a foreign venue.”

1:26:45 It’s almost like sending an American reporter, who doesn’t know any background information, to Afghanistan, and starts writing away.

1:27:02 A lot of that is subtle, but to Clint it’s fundamental reporting that his job is to present the truth as he sees it. And when you only have a part of the truth, your reporting is affected.

1:27:43 Much of the reporting is the truth, but not the whole truth.

1:28:00 That kind of perspective is the absolute epitome of solid reporting. We don’t get that if we don’t have a cultural understanding, Clint says.

1:28:38 Clint has no problem telling a source the quote he’ll use because he wants to be as accurate as possible.

1:29:03 He likes to think that almost all our reporters of color and women see things through another lens. There’s a sense of obligation to be accurate.

1:29:37 Without the Kernner Commision report, Clint believes we’d still be where we are today.

1:29:50 Clint doesn’t see any particular allegiance to the report.

1:30:01 He thinks that within 10 years of the report it became passé

1:30:16 He believes there have been other forces that have been more important, socio-cultural events that have made a difference.

1:30:33 Specifically, the movements, gay rights, issues with respect to reproductive rights. Clint says there’s been a shift in society.

1:30:58 Changes in demographics have also had profound influence.

1:31:15 There’s been – in some instances – better reporting by whites, Clint says

1:31:22 The Kerner report brought it to our consciousness, but that’s it

1:31:42 Clint uses an anecdote to illustrate his point

1:31:42 A professor once told him that ‘Americans can’t concentrate any one issue for too long. They may seem gung-ho about it, but something else will happen and draw their attention away.”

1:32:16 When Clint thinks about the Kerner report he sees it in a similar vein. It was something that struck at the communication industry, but the general population has no idea what this report means or its implications.

1:32:34 Clint believes that the initial reaction was one of embarrassment

1:33:32 It had the collective attention for a few years, Clint says, but there was no commitment.

1:33:40 The first couple of years were an attempt to fix that initial embarrassment

1:34:00 Clint wonders why summer programs for minority journalists stopped. “Are we suggesting this problem has been resolved?”

1:34:13 Clint says that some use the recession or state of the newspaper industry as an excuse: “how can we hire more people?” The irony of that, Clint says, is that some papers could’ve survived had they taken note of the demographic shift

1:34:30 In an article Clint co-wrote, Otis Chandler, publisher of the LA Times, said when African-Americans, Latinos and Asians get sophisticated enough they will become readers of the LA Times and when they become readers then our advertisers will jump on board

1:35:07 Clint doesn’t agree. “Advertisers have no allegiance to the media, only to those who can deliver the audience.

1:35:19 “If you’re sitting in the middle of Los Angeles in a sea of black, brown, yellow – all kinds of faces – and you’re not addressing the needs of those communities, you are going to die.”

1:35:50 Clint believes that if diversity “takes a back seat” then our society will be in trouble.

1:36:00 Corporate America will be the first to take notice the demographic shift, because their livelihood depends on extracting dollars from the consumers

1:36:46 Media that doesn’t change will be in trouble.